It appears that I'm still not ovulating and this is CD80. Anyone see anything that I'm missing? My temperature seems to go up for 3 days and drop below/at the CL.
The first page of the chart is in My Files.
Me: 32 DH: 35
TTA for now. More charts: http://www.ovusoft.com/members/mollie8765/files/default.aspx
I don't see ovulation either, but just to be safe, have you taken a pregnancy test? I don't think it's likely, because I don't see O, but I would probably take one. Have you talked to your doctor?
DH: 34 Me: 30
History of endometriosis
TTC #1 since Aug. 2016
I don't think there's any reason to take a pregnancy test since my temps have been all over the place the last few months and I haven't had anywhere near enough high temps to worry about it. What makes you suggest it?
I plan to talk to my doctor at my next physical in the spring since I seem to be having longer and longer cycles. For now, I wanted to verify that I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing.
Are you sure it's not a new cycle where you have marked it as spotting, right there in the middle? It looks like you might have Ovulated on 11/17 with an 8 day Luteal Phase. Just an idea. Then another O on the new CD 18 on 12/18..? Your LP temps would appear a little low but not improbable that that is what happened... Your Cervical fluid as marked support this theory as well. Have you considered taking OPKs? I get the cheap Wondfos from amazon. If you have more bleeding/spotting in 4 days it would be consistent with the 8 day LP that you might have had.... Hope that helps! It was a lot of fun staring at your chart. I love looking at hand written charts. (I guess I like looking at all charts).
Me: 30 - DH: 30 Married 2008
Began Charting September 2012.
A.B. born naturally July 29th, 2013
O.C. born naturally September 1st, 2015
due September 11th, 2017!
Praise God from Whom all Blessings Flow.
With all of the missing temps from the first part of the chart and the swings from highs to lows your best bet is to add OPKs and then see if you can get a progesterone draw after what you think may be an O (temp rise that stays above the six previous temps for at least 5 days and test as long as temps remain higher on that 5th day or later (if temps remain up).
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Heather, thanks for the idea about the 8 day LP. That's something I hadn't considered this time around. I've asked before about the spotting days because I was unsure as well, but I was told to count them with the LP. They've been normal for me for the last couple years. I expect spotting later this week because it'd be consistent with my cycle. My cycle still behaves normally minus the ovulation part.
Tell me more about OPKs. I don't know anything about them. I'm hesitant because I'm not trying to get pregnant yet, but I'm generally concerned if I'm not ovulating as I theoretically should be. Would the OPK give some clarity about whether I am or not?
PS - Glad you enjoyed reading my chart! =)
DJ Rayne, I don't know anything about OPKs. Can you tell me a little bit about them? As I asked above, are they useful for figuring out whether I actually ovulated?
For the missing temps, we were away from home, and I was waking up at very odd times. It wasn't even a time change issue, just odd sleep, so i gave up on temping for those days.
Just commenting because without them you can't really tell whether as the pp suggested you could be ovulating and bleeding could be lighter than normal/expected. OPKs will identify a surge of LH. Without the surge there can be no ovulation. It is a two part process though as you must confirm the surge leads to O by having an extended period of sustained higher temps above the 6 previous to what you suspect as O. So say you get a + on Mon then by Wed you should see a rise and it should be sustained. If temps do remain higher then adding a progesterone draw would give you added information and confirm O for sure. It would not tell anything about the "health" of that O. I have seen PCOS or peri charts that have a roller coaster of temps and spotting with no O. Shorter LPs and inonsistent temps could be LUFS which would be when O fails only because the egg is not released but expulsion is attempted initiating the transfer to the corpus that produces progesterone. If you think of the follie like a blister and it pops but the point of rupture produces serum that granulates and then skins over before fluid (in this case including egg) is all lost.
Thank you for the explanation. It helps to understand the different scenarios a little bit more. I also reviewed some of the information in TCOYF.
I got an OPK but I'll wait until after my next bleeding to start using it and report back. Hopefully I can at least go to my doctor in the spring with some useful information.
Sometimes on these forums people talk about the OPK "cheapies", ie you can find packs of 30 or 50 OPKs for cheaper than packs of 10. They are a little more finicky - you have to pee into a cup and dip the stick. The convenience of "pee on a stick" OPKs comes at a higher price.
One well-known brand of digital ovulation test only works if your cycles are under a certain length - I believe 40 days. It's also one of the most expensive tests, so don't get caught like I did! (There are no refill sticks - I thought I could reuse the digital part but no.)
Thanks for the heads up! I did go with the cup and stick option since it didn't make sense to me to pay more for less if the result is the same. We'll see what my opinion is after I actually use it!
Below is the latest chart. The green temp was disturbed. There have been positive OPKs since Saturday (with one invalid test on Sunday that I realized too late to retest the same urine sample) without any apparent O. Today I temped twice right after each other to see if human error might be a factor, and it made me more confused. Temp 1 was 96.9, Temp 2 was 97.7 which could be an O but isn't a true waking temp. Thoughts? I guess I was hoping it would confirm rather than muddy the water.
If the OPKs are positive, that means that there's a surge of LH, but it's lasting longer than it should and not being accompanied by O. Is that right?
I'm going to keep charting and using the OPK to keep gathering information. It seems like this cycle is never going to end!
Correct. You can have positive OPKs which means LH is surging but it doesn't guarantee O will follow. You can also have several days of positive and have O after the last by a day or two or even on the last. It just depends. Way back when I made a switch to soy milk for health reasons never thinking the "tiny" bit of phytoestrogen could effect anything. You cannot temp back to back. The second temp is invalid. Too many changes for it to be reliable. See what your next few temps do. That cycle I had 18 days of + OPKs before I quit testing and threw out the soy milk. It took awhile for things to get back to normal.
Another day of a positive opk and low temp.
I've been charting for 4 years and for at least two of those years, it was lazy charting where I wasn't very serious about it. Looking back at my charts, there were plenty of times I ended the cycle at AF regardless of whether it looked like there was an O. My lack of an O might not be a new problem, though it does seem like it's gotten worse--at least with this cycle!
DJ Rayne, your story about soy milk gives me something to think about. I don't *think* this is diet-related, but it doesn't mean it's not, and there may be environmental factors at play as well.
All of this is about the long view and not just what my cycle is doing at this moment, but it's starting to hit me that this could be a bigger problem than I was thinking.
I'm really sorry that you are having this confusion right now. It's troubling to think you might not be ovulating at all or not as regularly as you think. I know I had those same feelings when my charts started to reveal that! I think the OPKs are a good first step like you've taken. Like DJ said some people DO get multiple positives, but usually just 2-3 days worth or maybe a day or two then nothing then a few days later they will have another surge/positive. I'm sure you are reading the tests correctly, but in case you did not read the directions fully -- on OPKs- a test line has to be AS dark as the control line to be positive. sometimes this is a bit subjective, but in my experience, it's usually very clear when you DO get a positive.... it's just in those days when we want to see that positive so bad that we kinda tell ourselves "yeah this is close enough"- I've always gotten TRUE positives on cycles I ovulate and other cycles, I've gotten these kinda darkish, but negative tests. Every brand test has it's own sensitivity and some people can't use the extremely sensitive tests because they are always positive for them!
I know you said you were looking to talk to your doctor this spring, but I'm wondering if you might be interested in doing some testing CD3 or on 7dpo (or an assumed 7 day if things are vague) earlier. It could give you some reassurance or information about what might be happening. If you found out now for example that your thyroid was out of range or your prolactin was high, you could treat those conditions and it would be easier to chart going forward with more normal cycles. You could also see if your doctor is willing to do a mid-cycle ultrasound (around when you see fertile CM, but have not yet ovulated). This could see if you are making follicles and if they are the right level of maturity for the phase you are in- you could also check your lining thickness during this type of ultrasound. Just some thoughts!
As you mentioned in your last post, if you have changed supplements, vitamins, or eating/exercise habits, that could be contributing, especially if the irregularity is more recent.
Me: 35 DH: 33
TTC #1 since February 2015
Diagnosis: ovulation disorder: 4 medicated cycles with femara + FSH injections (2 timed intercourse and 2 IUI) - all BFN. We are done with treatments now (Nov 2016). Trying naturally for a bit while exploring other paths to parenthood.
Natural BFP 12/17/16! Ectopic Loss 5w5d on 12/26/16
Jan 2017- officially not trying and on bcp (due to high risk of repeat ectopic- remaining tube has surgical history) currently considering IVF, embryo adoption, fostering, and adoption.
My Charts: http://ovusoft.com/members/soon2be_5F00_mrsd/charts/default.aspx / http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/53a80b
Thanks for your thoughts Mrs. D! I've certainly been thinking about whether any human error on my part is involved. Before I got the first positive OPK, the test line was progressively getting darker but still visibly lighter than the control. The test line was definitely darker than the control on the first positive day. The last few days have been pretty much equal. Believe me, I was questioning myself as I was looking at it this morning, but I couldn't discern any difference. In some ways, getting a negative would make me feel better--like maybe O was a try and a fail instead of my body still trying even though it's having some trouble. It's like continuing to turn the ignition even though the car's not going to start.
Today was a high temp, so I'm hoping tomorrow or Saturday will be a negative opk so we can let the car just die and take it to the mechanic already!
What do you mean by testing? Doing specific tests with my doctor on those days? I'm open to it. I will bring your ideas up with my doctor and see what she thinks. I'm assuming that my doctor will refer me to my OB/GYN, so I don't know how quickly things will happen, but those are certainly worthwhile ideas. I called today for my appointment, so now I know it'll be 3/17.
To anyone, for my nerding out purposes, what are the minimum number of above CL temps required for O to be a possibility? I thought I read 5 somewhere, but is that right? I want to make a spreadsheet of my past cycles (like I said, nerding out!), how many, and which ones resulted in ovulation. When I was going back over my charts, I realized that I was uncertain about O on 20 of them because of random temperature drops followed staying high again. I love data, and I'm hoping it will help to give me an idea of how bad (or not) it's actually been and whether it's a recent or on-going problem.
You need temps sustained above the CL throughout your LP. There are a couple of points where you may have a one day drop and that is 2DPO and on one day mid LP (typically occurs between 6-10DPO) For many temps begin to fall at the end of AF with perhaps one day maybe (rarely) two - example falling temps 9DPO to 12 DPO and then below CL 13 and 14 DPO with AF the day after 14DPO. LP length varies but you need to be seeing at least 8 days. Below that number and O is suspect - it may never have happened or there is something else going on causing problems. There are some cases where chronic infection can cause raised temps for long periods of time and be confused with an LP but that doesn't happen often.
Thank you, DJ Rayne. The fallback rise has always confused me (along with the mid-LP drop), but your explanation plus looking back at 50 cycles/AFs helped a lot. I was able to see the pattern (and my husband got to say, told you so! since he charts my temps each day).
I made my "Did I ovulate?" spreadsheet/chart (we'll see if the link below works), and there are almost as many "Uncertains" as "Yeses." The "No's" were few, so I may have overreacted in my prior post. So many uncertain cycles isn't great either.
For this cycle.it seems like I O'ed on Wednesday, and I had 2 negative OPKs Thursday and Friday. I'll continue doing the opks after my next AF to get more information. A 6 day LH surge is still concerning to me, but I'm really hopeful that this was a true O, and I can finally end this 100+ day cycle! I don't have time to scan my chart right now, but I will before I post again.
6153.AFO - Sheet1.pdf